Quality Grind Podcast Episode 7 – Talent Acquisition: Strategic and Tactical Insights Part 2

Jessica Taylor: [00:00:00] This is the Quality Grind Podcast presented by Medvacon, conversations that go beyond compliance, sharing insights geared toward helping you navigate the everyday grind of regulated life science industries. Here are your hosts, Joe Toscano and Mike Kent.

Mike Kent: Welcome back to The Grind, everyone. Mike and Joe with you to continue our exploration of Talent Acquisition with Rhiannon Shadrick.

Back in episode six, we discussed some of the ways that organizations can improve their hiring process and therefore the likelihood of landing that ideal candidate.

In this episode, we’ll build on those themes and widen the lens a little bit to discuss the roles that recruiters and candidates play in making the experience a positive one for everybody involved. So with that, let’s jump right in to Talent Acquisition Part Two [00:01:00] here on The Grind.

We begin with a quick recap of the key points from episode six.

Rhiannon Shadrick: So let’s summarize what we’ve discussed so far in terms of the challenges companies face with talent acquisition. The first is having a well defined, organized hiring process where everyone is fully engaged and prepared. This takes a lot of communication and planning across the board. Making sure your ducks are in a row before you start can make the hiring experience better for everyone.

The second challenge is the employer’s first impression and branding. If the hiring process is clunky, disorganized, or chaotic, the candidate will pick up on this and wonder if your company is really a place they’d want to work. More importantly, is there timely communication and feedback from the company to keep candidates engaged?

And then, what are you doing to show potential candidates what you’re all about? What’s your company’s social media presence saying about the organization, and does it match up with reality? As much as you’re relying on the candidates to make a good [00:02:00] first impression, your company has to do the same thing in order to attract top talent.

And the last challenge we touched on is benefits and compensation. This is a tough one, but understanding the market and being able to offer attractive total compensation packages over just a salary is important. Then, how could that affect not only the pool of potential candidates, but finding the right one and getting them to sign that offer letter. And if you can’t find the person that you’re looking for, we talked about the steps you could take to find the best fit for your team.

Joe Toscano: So I think we had a good conversation in regards to some of the common challenges that we see and working with companies and how we help them in terms of getting all of this organized.

Let’s talk about some of the challenges the actual recruiter within the company is dealing with and facing on a regular basis. And maybe again, offer some suggestions as to how they can make that a better process for themselves in order to be most successful in their position.

Rhiannon Shadrick: Absolutely. I would definitely say [00:03:00] the first step is making sure that you’re in alignment with the hiring manager.

When a job description crosses my desk, the first thing I do is reach out to the hiring manager and say, “Hey, can I schedule 20 minutes to touch base with you and understand your team? What are you looking for? What projects is this candidate going to be working on? What should I tell them that should excite them for joining the team? Give me something that you’re going to be working on over the next year.”

So making sure that you have the overall, the overview of the team and where the trajectory is definitely the most important.

And understanding that sometimes you have to level set with the hiring manager. They may not always get what they want. You have to come presented with the data. So if you can’t find the person, why can’t you find the person? What are some skills that you’re willing to swap out? Compensation might not always be ideal. Hiring managers need to sit down with the recruiter and figure out two different approaches if they’re having issues with recruiting.

You’re either going to buy and build, which [00:04:00] is you’re going to go for a lower salary, go for someone who has the main core soft skills and the foundation for what you need, and you can teach them those other skills. Or if you’re looking to buy somebody who has those skills already, you may end up having to pay a little bit more than what you have budgeted.

So really having that conversation helps that misalignment.

Joe Toscano: If people aren’t on the same page, it’s really hard to get to that end result, right? And that goes back to what we said earlier, that bit of organization and knowledge goes a really long way in terms of the recruitment process being successful.

But I think one of the things that at least I’ve seen often occur is that the recruiter doesn’t have the tools that they need. They might not have access to the technology or the programs or the recruitment sites that they should.

One of the reasons that we get hired a lot in this space is because we have all the appropriate tools in order to make it a successful process and find candidates quickly in the network that goes with it. But sometimes internally, [00:05:00] companies haven’t made those investments and they don’t have the right subscriptions or access. What are some of the things that a recruiter can do to get around that and then work with the organization to get those things implemented if needed?

Rhiannon Shadrick: So the most important thing that a recruiter is going to need right off the bat, which is kind of a non-negotiable, is an ATS, which is an Applicant Tracking System. So there’s multiple different engines, like Google and Bing. There’s a couple of different systems that you can use, and they all work different ways. I’ve had some where it’s more old school, so you really have to go in and you have to pick out specific keywords and really deep dive into the job description. With a lot of these newer ATSs, what I’m seeing is they take the job description and they’ll take the resume and they compare the two and they’ll give you, I’ve had one before where it even said this candidate is 60 percent in line with the job description. [00:06:00]

It’s those tools are really instrumental in recruiter success. So being transparent with your organization as a recruiter, and if you’re not getting the support that you need, then this is something that needs to be implemented.

So ensuring you have an ATS, and then also, if you don’t have LinkedIn as a recruiter, you’re pretty much a fish out of water. So making sure that you have that, as well, is important because you’re also going to be connecting with people. LinkedIn now is how everybody searches for jobs nowadays. I would say 90 percent of people use LinkedIn to find their next position.

Joe Toscano: So there’s opportunities, as you just said, and systems that at a minimum that organization should have. But like every company, is there a budget for it? Is there opportunity for investment? Can they afford to do it? Do they do enough hiring to make it worthwhile? Sometimes a solution for those types of companies are to come to organizations like ours where we can help.

But if they’re doing it internally, there are a lot of different options, right? And they’re not all [00:07:00] extremely expensive. What’s really nice about some of the systems that exist out there is for a minimal investment you can get in. And as your organization grows or you’re seeing success from it, you could add on different tools and different things that give it much more capabilities.

More importantly, on LinkedIn, how would you really utilize that because I know that’s a tool where a lot of people recruit from.

Rhiannon Shadrick: So LinkedIn, I would say, has been having a lot of changes over the last couple of months. They actually just released an AI feature. So when I have a job that comes up, I can literally type in QA associate in a CAPA or a GMP environment located in Boston, and it pulls up a whole database of candidates.

So it’s really crazy how technology has really fast-forwarded over the past couple of years, especially with AI. So making sure that your resume and your profile have key words is so important, especially if it’s a very [00:08:00] niche system. You’d be surprised how many resumes and how many calls I’ve had to make trying to find one specific system because it wasn’t listed on barely any resumes. And if it was listed on the resume, then I had to deep dive a little bit more and find out, okay, how proficient were you with this? So really highlighting that on your LinkedIn and on your resume and not just quoting the job description is really imperative for making sure that you set yourself apart from other candidates.

Mike Kent: So Rhiannon, LinkedIn sounds like a pretty powerful service and it has a lot of capabilities. I’m sure all of us use LinkedIn and have searched for jobs and things like that. But from a recruiter standpoint, the things that you’re talking about using LinkedIn for, is that part of the free process or would organizations have to subscribe to that?

How does that work for individual recruiters to access those sorts of AI and other [00:09:00] additional features?

Rhiannon Shadrick: So these tools are included with the LinkedIn Recruiter membership. Unfortunately, you do have to pay for it. But if you reached out to the LinkedIn Business Solutions, any rep is happy to sit down and actually walk over the tool with you and show you how it works.

And having all of these different resources and being transparent with your company with what tools you need is going to help alleviate burnout, which is something that we see a lot in recruitment. Having all the right tools and having the accessibility of being able to find these candidates is going to shorten the time that the recruiter has to go out and source. It’s going to alleviate time to interview and write the submittals and send them over to the hiring manager. And it’s just going to overall create a smooth process for the recruiter, the manager, and then the candidate as well.

So, you don’t want a burned out recruiter. You want someone who’s on the dime and really on the top of their organization skills. Really, when [00:10:00] I think of myself as a recruiter, I think of myself as kind of like a gatekeeper of the company. I’m the first person that they see. I’m going to be introducing the company, so I want to be able to present myself to the best capability that I can to best represent the company.

Mike Kent: The tools can make things a little bit easier, but as we pointed out through our entire discussion, this is a lot of work for the recruiter and a lot of work for the hiring manager. How do you build your own structure for your activities to make sure that you can avoid what you talked about in terms of burnout or getting overwhelmed that could lead to missing out on a candidate or just lack of job enjoyment on your own part?

Rhiannon Shadrick: I have a couple other tools that I use as well to make sure that I myself am organized. One of the main tools that I use is OneNote. And basically what that is, that’s a notebook that you can go in and it automatically syncs and saves every time you go in and type.

So every time I go in and I pipeline a [00:11:00] candidate, or I think we had a really great conversation, I want to remember this. I’ll go in and I’ll actually write a summary of what our conversation was. So making sure you’re organized and that you have somewhere that you can go back and reference, because you never know when an opportunity is going to open up again.

So some ATSs will track when was the last time you sent an email, but just to kind of double check myself, I use Excel to track when was the last time I reached out to a candidate. When did I give them feedback? And then also just to keep track of what roles have I worked on in the past, so that way if anything comes up, or if I have a new role come up, I can backtrack and reference and say okay I worked on this role six months ago and look at that job description or maybe see what candidates I spoke with.

So, there are a couple other different tools that recruiters can use on their own outside of the ATS to help with their organization, but it really is to each their own. It’s just what process works best for you.

Joe Toscano: The challenges are, you know, a company might have to hire 20 people. And all of a sudden, they all have to start [00:12:00] within the next month. And they’re all not in the same department. They’re across the organization. So lots of different folks involved, lots of different positions involved. The best way to track those individuals so you’re not losing a good candidate is with the tools that we mentioned.

And I think you said it great. Each recruiter is going to use the process that works best for them. There’s a lot of things out there to alleviate the pressure and help a recruiter work through those crazy periods of time. Or if they’re hamstrung a little bit because they don’t have the appropriate tools, there’s enough out there that you could at least start using and then make a case for your organization as growth occurs and more people need to be hired to make the investments that they should.

Rhiannon Shadrick: Absolutely. And then using these tools are also going to help prioritize. So as a recruiter, you’re thrown multiple different recs at a time. So really being able to sit and understand what are the organizational needs? What is my current capacity? So being able to really sit down and figure out how you [00:13:00] can organize and best use your time to best fill the needs of the company.

Joe Toscano: From the recruiters perspective, there’s a few things here that are really important.

Making sure that the recruiter has everything at their fingertips that they really need to use to find the best people, whether that’s outside help or internal systems. Without that, it makes the job just that more challenging.

Conversations with that hiring manager so you know specifically what you’re looking for, the timeframes that you’re working within, what the expectations are, and the compensation that you have to offer goes a really long way, as well.

And I think the last step here is we all, through work, go through crazy times, but it’s important to stop, take a breath, and just make sure that everything is where it needs to be. You want to avoid that burnout during those times.

But with the right support, the right tools, the right help, we’ve seen that be a very successful process. It’s when there’s disorganization, lack of [00:14:00] communication, and the inability in order to communicate effectively, especially with candidates that we see organizations run into trouble.

So again, it goes back to what we talked about earlier. A little bit of structure goes a really long way in terms of making this work.

Rhiannon Shadrick: And I love that you brought up the candidate aspect because that was actually the next challenge that I wanted to go into. Because one of the things that I would love to highlight is that this is the most challenging candidate market, or just job market in general, that we have seen probably ever. So I would love to dive in a little bit more about what are some of these challenges that we’re seeing in 2024.

Joe Toscano: Yeah, I mean the candidates, it’s a changing landscape, depending on the availability of work. In a tight market where everybody’s employed, it’s really hard to find good people and bring them away. And then we have that conversation about compensation all over again. Why would somebody want to change something if they’re happy where they are?

But then again, on the other side of that, when there’s a lot of candidates out there, it’s a little bit different, too, right? More [00:15:00] people are eager to get placed. They’re going to be much more responsive than somebody who has a lot of different opportunities.

That’s always a challenge. Because a lot of times, as we all know, effort, energy, finance is invested in finding the right person, and they could be difficult to work with. Sometimes they don’t return calls. They don’t show up for interviews. They don’t communicate. A lot of time has been spent in sourcing that person in order to have that result, and it makes it really tough.

What are some of the ways that you could recommend to deal with candidates to ensure that they remain engaged, responsive, they get back to you, especially if there is a conflict that they at least communicated so you know to take them out of the process?

Rhiannon Shadrick: So the first step as a job seeker that is probably the most important is evaluate where you’re at. What are you looking for in your next role? Because really how you see your career progressing is going to dictate how you apply to jobs, what companies you apply for. So really having an understanding of what [00:16:00] you need and what you’re looking for in your professional development. So that’s step one is just figuring that out. What are your goals?

Second is starting to do some of that research. Try and find companies. I find that as candidates nowadays, unfortunately, you do have to take that extra step. If you’re interested in a company, find a profile on LinkedIn, find someone who’s in a role that you want to eventually get to and say, “Hey, I’ve looked at your profile. I really love your background. I see that you’ve been with this company for X amount of years and I want to get to your position. Give me some advice, or can I hop on a call and have a 15 minute conversation with you?” Really taking those initiatives and that next step is going to help you find the right next fit.

Of course, this is always easier said than done, and it is a challenge. But making sure that you yourself stay engaged and just optimistic, trying to make sure that you know that the next opportunity is going to come your way when it’s the right time.

But like you said, you yourself need to make an [00:17:00] initiative. If you’re in the process of interviewing and emergency comes up, things always happen. Reach out to your recruiter. I honestly can’t tell you how many times I’ve had candidates just not reach out to me and the hiring manager calls me and says, “Hey, I’ve been in the waiting room for about 10 minutes”, and I have absolutely no idea because the candidate not only confirmed with me, but then even said, “Hey, I’m looking forward to it.”

So if something goes on, just make sure you’re transparent, because not only, yes, companies do leave a long lasting impression, but you also leave a long lasting impression. That recruiter may end up going to a different company in five years. What if that’s a company you really want to work for, but you apply and that recruiter says, “Oh, I remember them. They didn’t show up to that interview.” So really making sure that you also build your own brand and stick to it as important as an as a job seeker and as a candidate.

Joe Toscano: And I think, you know, the other part where expectations are very different, and this all started with COVID back in 2020. We all went from everybody worked [00:18:00] in an office to nobody worked in an office. Now we’re getting back to everybody is coming back to the office.

But because of that time period, a lot of people have expectations where they really want to work somewhere. But, the requirement now is you need to be back at a facility, at a building, at a site, whatever the case may be. And people don’t want to do so all the time. They want those really flexible work arrangements.

Rhiannon, I know we run into that quite a bit. How are some of the ways to work with candidates and companies in order to deal with that situation?

Rhiannon Shadrick: What I really find nowadays is candidates are more open to the idea of hybrid. Really what’s more important to them is the schedule flexibility. Do I have to leave at 3:30 to go pick up my kid from school? Do I need to leave for a doctor’s appointment? A lot of candidates, like you said, they want to work remote. But unfortunately, that’s just not always the viable option.

So having that flexibility and [00:19:00] understanding, okay, I need to go on site a couple days a week, just so that way I’m there. I’m collaborating. But hiring managers should be flexible. You know, it’s 2024, employees really value flexibility.

Mike Kent: Yeah, I think there’s an opportunity to acknowledge that flexibility through the entire landscape. Well, we want to get people back into the office. And that’s where the conversation stops. And everybody’s left with, “Well, why?”

But I think here’s another opportunity to provide an answer that if it’s shared with the candidate, of, “In our environment, we really thrive on collaboration. Collaboration kind of stalls when we’re remote.”

Being transparent with the reasons why things are the way they are can oftentimes go a long way towards alleviating assumptions or, “Well, gee, they just want me to show up because they’re being, you know, tyrannical old [00:20:00] schoolers, and they don’t understand the new landscape,” or whatever it happens to be. Does that make sense?

Rhiannon Shadrick: As an employer, it has to make sense to an employee. So if there really is that reason for collaboration, then of course, transparency from the get go, from the start should be number one. So just really having that understanding on what is the need for me being in office and then having that flexibility.

Joe Toscano: I think it also brings to light another situation, right? If a company is really looking to find the best candidates, if they’re more flexible, it’s a larger pool of people that you could select from. But, if you limit yourself, and that’s okay too, we’re not saying that it’s not, but you’re going to be working with a smaller pool of candidates.

Joe Toscano: I think another thing that’s really important, from the company and the recruiters perspective is when we hire, we talked about the importance of a job description, right? What do they want for this current position?

But a place where there’s sometimes a failure that candidates have an [00:21:00] interest in is, “Well, I’m going to come in in this position, but what opportunities do I have to grow beyond it?”

It’s not just about the job they’re coming into. If they work really hard and they set themselves apart and they make that effort and they’re successful, they want to know where they can go, too.

Because if you could show somebody a future and give examples of people that have done it based on where they’re coming in, they’re going to have more eagerness. They’re going to get more excited. They’re going to want to be more part of your company because they know there’s a future beyond this job.

Rhiannon Shadrick: And I love how you brought up the fact about bringing up previous employees. That I feel like is one of the strongest cases as a recruiter is all of these success stories. Being able to speak personally, this is a candidate I brought in two years ago as a data analyst, and he got promoted within a year and a half, and this is how he did it. So really being able to speak to that shows, hey, I can do it, I can get in, I can hit the ground running, and it shows, hey, this company is really investing in [00:22:00] their people. So it’s just overall, it’s just a really great approach as a candidate and as a hiring manager.

Joe Toscano: And you said it, some of the best places that works, and again, it’s not always the case, but I’m interviewing you for this job, but this is how I started with the company and now look where I am. I’m hiring for the job where I began in, or I did this job years ago in my career, or, it’s so funny, my boss is actually somebody who started in the same place that you are. If you could demonstrate that growth opportunity within a company, that excites candidates. Most individuals are going to want to know that there’s opportunities beyond where they’re coming in. If they work hard and it’s earned, right?

Rhiannon Shadrick: And I don’t want to backtrack a little bit, but this does fall on the company. They need to not only have the job descriptions, but have a career path written out. There’s a lot of repeat roles, like you said, so figure out what are some KPIs that an employee can [00:23:00] follow to reach that point.

So there are so many different things that you can tie in together to just overall create a better experience and make sure that the candidate stays in the long run. Because it’s going to save you money as a company, it’s going to make the company stronger, and it’s going to make the candidate happy.

Joe Toscano: How great would it be if you could say, “Hey, look, if you meet this performance metric and you have a want, a desire, we have a management training program that you can qualify for that could help you on that pathway, or we have a mentorship program that we can get you involved with to lead to that next spot. Or you could actually shadow somebody in these other areas, once you do well here, in order to see what other places you may go.”

It’s not just a question of jobs. It’s a question of how you can help them get there. And if a candidate sees that you have a good program, a good process, good pathway, they’re going to, again, get really excited and it’s going to give you an edge over a lot of companies that do not do this, right? It’s such a small [00:24:00] thing and it’s good for the company too, because now they’re planning their future in terms of where people start to where they can go. It’s a win win for all parties in regards to it.

Mike Kent: Yeah, it seems to me the two of you are talking about the finish line for the Talent Acquisition process not being day one that the person starts on the job. That’s when the employee starts work and everybody can take a quick breath and say, okay, the recruiters got, you know, the next of their 47 jobs to try and hire for, right?

But what occurs to me is, really the depth in, and Rhiannon, you said it beautifully, what we started talking about in terms of the company having things together and thought things through to the next level, the hiring manager thinking a little bit beyond, okay, yes, it’s important to fill this need right now because I’ve got an urgent resource requirement, but also [00:25:00] what does that look like downstream?

And so when folks talk about organizational planning and succession planning and navigating, it’s one of the things that candidates are tremendously interested in and will help them make a decision as to whether or not they go with one company or the other.

Joe Toscano: You know, in terms of the candidate itself, I think we hit a lot of really good points, right? Candidates today are looking for something a little bit different. It’s a competitive market. They want a flexible work environment. They want a situation where they can work with an organization that they’re really excited to be with. I think you have a greater chance of attracting the right people if you offer flexibility and you limit yourself a little bit if you don’t.

 They also want to work with a meaningful company in a meaningful position, but more importantly, that there’s a future there, right? That they have a pathway to do something beyond the current job they’re in, regardless of what that may be.

And to attract the best candidate and to [00:26:00] get a candidate’s interest, companies would really benefit themselves from not only having a job description as to the current position, but more importantly, a pathway to the future.

But at the end of the day, I think hopefully what we’ve shown is from the company, from the recruiter, from the candidate side, some very simple steps and things that can be done in order to improve the process, attract the right people, and have a really, really successful recruitment program.

Mike Kent: With that, sounds like a great place to put a bow on this discussion of Talent Acquisition. Rhiannon Shadrick, I want to thank you for joining us today. It’s been a great discussion and a real pleasure having you and your expertise on with us here at the Quality Grind Podcast.

Rhiannon Shadrick: Absolutely, and thank you both again for the conversation. I had a great time and hopefully this is a great conversation to provoke some thoughts.

Joe Toscano: Thanks so much, Rhiannon. Thanks, Mike, as always.

Mike Kent: Thanks very much for joining us on this episode of the Quality Grind [00:27:00] Podcast. We invite you to like, share, and comment wherever you’re getting your podcasts, and we’ll see you again next time here on The Grind.

Joe Toscano: If Medvacon can help you and your organization, we’re happy to do so. We specialize in the following areas: Quality and Compliance, Validation and Qualification Services, Project Management, Tech Transfers, General and Specialized Training Programs, Engineering Services, and Talent Acquisition. If you have general questions as well, feel free to give us a call at any time.

We can easily be reached at 833 633 8226, or via our website at www. medvacon. com. Thanks so much, and we look forward to speaking with you.

Jessica Taylor: Thank you for listening to the Quality Grind Podcast presented by Medvacon. To learn more or to hear additional episodes, visit us at www. medvacon. com.