Quality Grind Podcast Episode 5 – Leadership in Life Sciences Part 2

Jessica Taylor: This is the Quality Grind Podcast presented by Medvacon. Conversations that go beyond compliance. Sharing insights geared toward helping you navigate the everyday grind of regulated life science industries. Here are your hosts, Joe Toscano and Mike Kent.

Mike Kent: Welcome back to The Grind, everyone! Mike and Joe here with you to continue our discussion of leadership with our guest, Kristin Aikin Salada.

Back in Episode 4, we covered topics including being an effective listener, taking initiative and appropriate risks, getting more out of those behavior surveys. Oh, and the phrase on that 3×5 card that Kristin still uses all these years later.

Today we’ll talk more about the challenges of leading in regulated environments and identify a few strategies that leaders can use right away to improve their team’s performance and make things a little easier on themselves.

Near the end, Joe relates a story of how even the busiest of leaders can create fun and effective ways to connect with the people they serve.

So with that, on to Part Two of “Leadership in Life Sciences”, here on The Grind.

Our conversation picks up from where Joe and Kristin were describing the benefits of leaders being curious and really listening when people come to them with an idea or for guidance. Let’s jump back in.

What occurs to me dovetailing off of that conversation is in a regulated environment, the feeling of being constrained in an environment that I felt like, or in some cases was, heavily scrutinized, high level of oversight, regulatory compliance, all of these things, getting into a mindset of, well, we can’t change or we can’t have new ideas or new perspectives because we’re locked into doing it this way.

 There may be a “no” that has to come out as an answer, but that’s not the end of the discussion. There’s a “no, and here’s why”. And, well, let’s think about what wiggle room we may have.

Finding creative ways to connect with that individual based on things that we’ve already talked about in terms of understanding them, understanding how we show up, and then understanding even in a regulated environment where we have some constraints, we can still look to find opportunities, even if they are little opportunities now, that can give people confidence. And Joe, I’ve heard you say it 100 times. Just having that one opportunity to be seen may give the person the confidence they need to bring forth that next idea that may change the whole landscape of everything for the better.

 So are there other things from a tactical perspective that leaders can start to use immediately or try on for size with their teams to engage folks with?

Kristin Aikin Salada: Yeah, a thought comes to mind right away, which is so connected to what we were just talking about, you know, listening to others ideas and inviting them into the dialogue, and it’s delegating. I am amazed at how often, and I remember thinking this early in my career, that delegating is binary. You either do or you don’t delegate.

And when you work in a heavily regulated environment, where things have to be technically accurate, there are lives at stake in many environments, there are an enormous amount of dollars, there’s our reputation at stake, all kinds of things. We often think I either do or don’t delegate and therefore that’s scary and terrifying. And I don’t know if you know what you’re doing yet, so I don’t delegate.

And I think for leaders, a really important thing to know of, we talk about this in Personify Leadership, is there are three different modes of delegation: hands on, hand in hand, and then hands off, and that will change. You will pick 1 of those 3 modes of delegation based on a lot of factors.

Number 1, what’s the skill set and the knowledge base of the person you’re delegating to? Two, what’s the project like? Is it an appropriate project to build their skill set on? And then number 3, sort of like, what’s your timeline? What’s the sort of conditions or the environment around that delegation?

And by the way, a lot of delegators are like, oh, I’m going to toss this off. So I have too much on my plate. I’m stressed out. So I’m just going to dump it on you, right? That’s when people say I’ve been dumped and run, right? That’s the, dump it and then leave.

The really primary objective of delegating is to develop others. So when you think about leadership, yes, the benefit is you get some stuff off your plate, but the more important thing is once you’re a leader, your job, even if you’re not a formal leader, when you’re working in a team environment, you are going to be helping others develop skill sets.

So if you decide to do hands on, then you can say, great, how about we work on this together? But really at the end of the day, the responsibility lands with me, so I will continue to check in with you regularly. I think control is the main issue that comes up for leaders that don’t want to delegate because they know the buck stops with them and the responsibility lands there. But if you can find the right mode of delegation, then there isn’t such a fear factor around that.

As time goes on, you can become more hands off because you know they can take it and run with it. And I delegated someone to something. It took me 3 years. First year, I was very hands on. She watched me. I trained her. I taught her what we’re doing. She told me a little of what she learned. That was very hands on.

Second year, she ran the program, but I was right there in the room. I was helping her. We were checking in regularly. There were a few things we had to make sure we’re clear on who had what role, right? Because when you do hand in hand, things can fall through because ‘I thought you had it and you thought I had it’ kind of thing.

And then the third year I checked in with her at the beginning, she ran the whole thing and she said, “Oh, by the way, I’ve made some improvements to this. We’re going to do this, this and this instead.” And can I tell you, they were I never would have thought of and they were better.

So that’s another advantage to getting to that hands off is they develop. Your people will make things even better than you even imagined they would before you even started. So I checked back in a little bit afterwards. I was like, how’d it go? And rave reviews better than I would have done. That’s your job as a leader is developing others, right?

Joe Toscano: Absolutely. And I’ll even take it a step further when you delegate, but you don’t allow a person then to do the things that you’re asking them to in any one of those three buckets, it destroys two things. It destroys trust. So good luck with the relationship there, right? And motivation. So here you have somebody who may be excited about the opportunity, but if you’re babysitting them, if you’re interfering where you shouldn’t or you’re not taking the work that they’re producing and saying, wow, that was a good attempt. Let me help you make it better. Or, you know, wow, you did a great job or I know you were responsible for this, but I had some time this week and I took care of it. That is not going to achieve the goals that we want to.

And for me in my career, I’ve been very fortunate in a lot of different ways. But one of them was I have worked for some incredible individuals, and individuals that exemplify everything that we’re discussing here today. And I think that’s helped me achieve a lot of the things that I have through my career.

And with that said, one of the greatest attributes that I have always found with the strongest leaders is they’re not afraid to get their folks or individuals that they’re associated with, even if it’s not a direct report, into a mentorship program or be mentors themselves. What’s so great about that is yes, that might be somebody I work with on my team, but by giving them exposure to other individuals in other areas with different thoughts and different approaches, they’re only going to come back stronger. They’re only going to come better. That’s only going to benefit the organization. It’s only going to benefit my team. Because now they could bring skills back that maybe we didn’t all have before, or I didn’t have the time as a leader to implement or show, right?

So I think a mentorship program is also such a critical component, especially with those that are good and have confidence. They recognize that they’re not afraid of giving up some of their leadership skills, so to speak, to allow other people to have influence and impact. And people that can take advantage of that are just better for it. And I’ve been, again, very fortunate of that program, which is why I’m such a fan of it, if it could be done within an organization. It just brings you to a whole other level that didn’t exist before. And it’s such a great contributor to success.

Kristin Aikin Salada: And that brings us way back to where we started, which is initiative taking. So if you don’t have a mentorship program, don’t wait.

Joe Toscano: Right.

Kristin Aikin Salada: Find someone in the organization and say, I really admire the work that you’re doing. I could tell I have a lot to learn. I would really love if you’re willing to try and see if we can have lunch once a month, where I can just pick your brain and get to know you. So that’s part of that initiative taking is seeking out those individuals that are willing to mentor. It’s really an honor to be asked to mentor someone. It really is. And it’s so rewarding to see them shine and to see them thrive and know that you had a little bit of a influence on their leadership journey. I love that Joe.

Joe Toscano: Yeah, I agree. It’s a huge step. Mike, any thoughts?

Mike Kent: Even in a regulated environment, in a highly technical environment, I remember my experiences growing up on the bench and then when I moved into a quality and training role.

But here’s where I think another opportunity for our industries to do better with this is to encourage those sorts of mentorship programs, especially the informal relationships that you talked about.

 How do we encourage those sorts of things to happen where a leader will be sitting down talking with a member of their team and say, “You know what? I’ve observed this tendency in you to take ownership or be really willing to step out and help your fellow teammates when things get rough for them, and these basic natural characteristics of leadership. Let’s get you talking to other people who can help you cultivate those and arrange or facilitate those introductions or encourage people to go seek those out.”

Are those things that we can do as scientists and engineers? I think I know the answer to that question is obviously yes. But then from a practical level, how do we go about doing that and what does it take really to start that process rolling?

Kristin Aikin Salada: Yeah, Joe, do you have thoughts first before I answer?

Joe Toscano: No, I’d love to hear your perspective. Mike knows I’ll talk about it for a half hour if I’m allowed to. ( laughter)

Kristin Aikin Salada: Well, certainly, folks that have more technical minds and technical brains that are more sort of analysis driven often find, uh… I’ve heard feedback from lots of my engineering and other technical role colleagues and clients that say, “It’s really awkward. Like, how do I go ask someone to mentor me? This seems really odd.”

And so I think for a lot of those folks a formal structured mentoring program is super helpful because it just creates the framework and the structure within which they can operate.

The other thing that I love, and I do a lot of executive team offsites or leadership team or departmental offsites with folks, and I’ll say, okay, wait, we need some relationship building time. And they’ll say, “Oh, great. Let’s go. That’s what I thought we’d go to a baseball game or go, go carting.” And so here’s what I want to highlight. That’s team bonding, that is not team building. Because when you take a group of people, go carting or to a baseball game, what you will find is the folks that already have a relationship will hang with each other. So all you’re doing is you’re strengthening the relationships that are already in place.

If you want to start to shift the culture, and if your goal is to have more people know each other, and more people begin to learn about each other’s skill sets and strengths, You actually have to structure it. I know a lot of people like to sort of joke about the idea of speed dating, but there’s a lot of power to structuring those conversations so that the expectations are clear, so that any awkwardness you can laugh at yourself about and say, “Well, our time is up. It was really great to chat with you.” And there’s a chance to say, “I enjoyed this conversation. Can we have another one? I’d love to talk with you offline.”

So I think organizations often think that offsites or half day meetings are just a chance to get stuff done. And I think it’s such a miss! I often get eye rolls from people like, uh, you’re going to make me talk to people I don’t know very well, right? Why do we do that? The answer is when you hang out with people who know you well, they will inadvertently, not consciously, try and keep you behaving the way they know you to behave. So if Mike, you and I have a rapport that involves a lot of joking around, inadvertantly if you and I are paired up, you will try and keep me in that place of always joking around because that’s how you know me. People you know well actually prevent you from growing and prevent you from learning to a certain extent. So, in a regulated environment, in an environment where time is of the essence, the more you can structure those interactions, it can really help. Is that similar to anything you’ve thought of Joe in mentoring?

Joe Toscano: Yeah, and you bring up so many good points. And I wrote a couple of notes down because I really don’t want to forget some of this. The first thing is, comfort, right? You don’t want to do something different because it’s uncomfortable. It’s not where you’ve been. But what people don’t tend to realize is what’s comfortable to you today at one point was uncomfortable and you’re comfortable there now because you took that chance. You did that different thing. And now all of a sudden you said, wow, I did okay with it. I can do a little bit more.

Look, this podcast is one. I wasn’t very comfortable with this when we started. I think I’m getting there, Mike. Eventually, you have to take those chances because that’s where the growth comes in. And I go back to, we all hear our parents in this next statement and that is, “I’m not crazy about the people you’re surrounded with. You need new friends.” Well, new friends are sitting next to new people at dinner. It gives you new exposures, new things to see, hear, discussion points that might be outside your normal circle.

It goes back to, yeah, it’s a little uncomfortable, but wow, now you’re going to expand your horizons and how many other great things can you get exposure to that’ll make you a better person and help you contribute even more?

These sound like such simple things, but they have huge impact if you’re willing to take a chance. We all know people have fear, right? That’s what keeps them from doing it. But if you let that rule your life, you’ll never do anything.

But the other thing here too, and you brought up an important point is, how do I get a mentor? What if my company doesn’t have a formal one? I’m going to kind of break it into two buckets. One, get somebody outside the organization. They don’t have to be in your company to be a good mentor or somebody that you could speak to and have or get advice from. They could be anyone with great experience that could help you on your journey.

Kristin Aikin Salada: Absolutely.

Joe Toscano: And if your company has a formal program, get involved, have that conversation with your manager.

But let’s say they don’t. You have identified somebody in the organization that you would like to do this with. The most important thing is have that discussion with whomever you work for, right? You don’t want them to be surprised that you’re approaching maybe somebody in the organization. It may not be formal. They might not help you with it, but you don’t want them to get a call and say, “Hey, so and so was in my office today. Did you know something about it?” It goes back to relationships and trust. Express that you would like to do this, that you’ve identified somebody and asked to why if they’re not willing to help you if it’s okay for you to approach them.

But we all know if you approach somebody, and you say to them, “Look, I understand your reputation. We don’t know each other. I hear a lot of great things. I would love if there’s an opportunity for us just to meet an hour a month so we could have a conversation.” Who’s going to say no to you? Not very many people. And if they do say no, you might want to rethink who you chose as a mentor because most of them will be flattered that they’re being approached that way.

And, and look, the first question they’re going to ask is, does anybody know we’re talking and the answer should be yes. And then a good mentor is going to sit you down and say the first thing, and it’s always happened to me, “tell me about yourself. Tell me what you’re looking to do. How did you come to the company? What are you looking to achieve? Just tell me who Joe is or Mike is or Kristin is.” And then the second thing is always, “Well, how can I help?” And then they’re quiet because they don’t want to tell you how they’re going to mentor you. They want to understand how they can best help you. And the best mentors, or anybody being asked to do that, will always approach it that way.

So again, Kristin, love everything that you said, and I think if people could take a little bit of a chance if they take a little bit of approach, and it feeds right back to leadership, even as an individual performer, these are steps that are going to make you so much better down the road and help so many other people overcome the challenges that you had just to do these things and get there.

And that’s what this is all about. It’s continuous growth and sharing. And if you could do that, again, I go always back to the same thing. The outcomes are pretty incredible. And your most successful people do this, they just do.

Kristin Aikin Salada: They do. And people at very high levels do this. This is an interesting thing. I think early in my career, I thought, “Oh, the senior leaders in the organization, they got it made. It’s all good.” And as I’ve continued to work with people at higher and higher levels, it’s lonely at the top. There aren’t a lot of people to talk to, you know, so I would say two things.

Number 1, you can still kind of have a mentor type of a relationship, even at the senior levels. And there, sometimes it’s even more valuable when it’s someone outside your organization, right? Because they’re like a peer in a different industry that can give you, “What do you guys do over there compared to what we do here?”

The second thing I would say is, very simply, we know that building resilience and navigating stress is strengthened by connection. And so if you’re a senior leader, have those people that you can meet up for coffee or meet up for a beer or whatever the case may be and say, “Oh, I made a bonehead move at work today. Can I just share with you what I did? And can you just tell me I’m human and it’s okay. I didn’t ruin everything.” We all need that support network, and maybe it shifts from necessarily learning like you would in your earlier stages of your career of mentoring, but it instead becomes a peer and a colleague that you can really have as a support network because that connection piece is so important for our quality of life and for our ability to build resilience. ‘Cause this world is just, darn it, it’s not getting any simpler.

Joe Toscano: Right.

Kristin Aikin Salada: It just isn’t getting simpler. It’s getting more complicated. And so that suggests to me that we all need to be able to have that person or those people that we can go meet up with outside and just be a little vulnerable and get some “You got it!”, a little attaboy, a little hang in there. It’s going to be okay. ‘Cause it’s hard. It’s hard being a leader, right?

Joe Toscano: And that’s so important. The thing I love that you said is this is a person that you could have a lot of confidence in and have a conversation. And look, I made a mistake today. Who doesn’t make mistakes? God knows I could fill a building with them, right? We’ve all been there. We’re not perfect. That’s how we learn. That’s how we grow. But it also avoids you taking it home sometimes, too, right? You

Kristin Aikin Salada: Yes. Yes.

Joe Toscano: going home to your spouse or significant other and saying, Oh, my God, I did something today. And, you know, maybe they’re not best positioned to give the advice. And if you have that outlet, that opportunity somewhere else, it allows for more balance, right?

It doesn’t mean you can’t have that same conversation in both places. But now you’re getting the two types of advice you really need. Somebody that cares about you giving it and somebody who cares about you in a different way that can really relate to that professional perspective to either encourage you, tell you it’s okay, or give you advice as to what you should do next. And it’s all those little things again, that just build a lot of great momentum. And I love that you said it, that additional person, especially if outside the industry, could just provide such great perspective. I know I have a lot of friends that I’ll call and say, I know you don’t do what I do, but what do you think?

You know, and it’s great to hear a different way of it being looked at, pursued, discussed, and it just puts everything in a better light. It really does. If nothing else, you have a lot of fun having the conversation and laughing over it.

Kristin Aikin Salada: You do. And things come full circle. So next Tuesday, I’m going for a hike with the person who, when I was 23 years old, my second job out of college, he was my supervisor. And we built a good relationship and have stayed in touch all these years.

Now he’s coming to town, and part of what he wants to talk about on our hike is that he’s now out on his own consulting. He’s actually seeking my experience as an external consultant – “what’s it like?”

So to the mentoring thing and extending yourself, putting yourself out there, taking initiative. You may never know that the relationships you form early on in a mentor. He was one of my early mentors and we’re still in touch and we still get together when we can.

It’s such a powerful thing, and it really allows us to be human because we’re going to go through our ups and downs and ins and outs and highs and lows and being able to do it in partnership with others that we have good relationships with is something you cannot put a value on. It’s so valuable.

Joe Toscano: Totally agree.

Mike Kent: We talked earlier about the benefits of leaders taking initiatives and taking appropriate risks and trying things out and being willing to make those mistakes and be vulnerable. Other human beings will see that, will observe that and modeling becomes a tremendous motivator for other people who may be thinking, “Well, I can’t do this, or I have all these barriers in place and this person goes out and does it and meets with people and talks about their experiences and shares that with their team”, for example. If a leader is willing to go and do that, that willingness to be authentic, willing to be vulnerable, willing to share all of that and demonstrate what you want to see in others, I think would go an awful long way.

And the two of you talked about it being lonely at the top. One of the things that we talked about offline also in preparing for the episode today was, how can leaders get out and engage with folks? And not to the point where everybody freaks out because the CEO is walking down the hallway, “Quick, make sure everything’s clean and tidy and everybody’s wearing that…” you know, the shirts all buttoned up and everything else.

But if it becomes more of the norm where the CEO is walking down the hallway and just pops in and says, “Hey, do you have a second to talk to me and tell me about how things are going? And, you know, give me your spiel on things,” and really listening and practicing all of the things that we talked about earlier in the episode.

That can provide folks that are looking for that extra little push that it’s okay to do this with some objective evidence that A) yes, it’s okay. B) it’s actually encouraged. C) it’s not just executive speak. “We want people to feel safe. We want people to feel empowered.” And oh, by the way, the message that gets sent is if you’re not in your workspace with your head down grinding, you’re doing something wrong.

But if people see the opposite in real terms from the people who are modeling that behavior, I think it can go a long way. It really encompasses a lot of the things that we’ve talked about.

Joe Toscano: You know, Mike, you said if a CEO is walking down the hall and everybody’s diving for cover, we have a problem, right? People shouldn’t be diving for cover because somebody in management or leadership or a supervisor is walking down the hall. There’s so many other problems with that, we could spend another three hours talking, but we won’t do that today.

 The best thing for leaders to do is get out of the space they’re in all the time. If you’re only surrounded by executives or managers or supervisors or employees, and you’re not expanding it, you’re only hearing one train of thought, one type of conversation, one perspective. The most effective individuals get out into the community, and it doesn’t matter your position or title. They’re interacting with everybody. Again, really busy people. Do they have all day to do this? No, but when they have an opportunity, they take advantage of it.

Joe Toscano: And a quick story. My daughter did her doctorate down at High Point University. The president of that university, who has done amazing things with that school, every single day almost literally, walks the campus, hands out candy bars to the students, talks to them, shows up at lunch. I can’t tell you how many times she sent me a picture when she was in school where he was just walking the cafeteria, sitting at tables with students. He participates in everything.

So, this is an individual that has raised literally hundreds of millions of dollars, built a school that was always good to an incredible institution and still finds the time every day to interact with his customer base, right? The students that are going to the school and seeing their reactions and having conversations.

It’s not his board of directors. It’s not just the people that he’s connected to that are donating millions of dollars for him to achieve what he is. He’s integrated with everyone. And the reason he’s successful, in my opinion anyway, is because of that interaction.

Look, I went to an undergraduate university. I did my MBA, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen the president sitting in the cafeteria,

Kristin Aikin Salada: Who’s, I was thinking the same thing!

Joe Toscano: having a slice of pizza and asking everybody what they thought. But this gentleman does it every day and kudos. This is somebody who truly gets it and has a passion and is talking to every level in the organization.

So anyway, I brought it up because as Mike you said that, I’m thinking, wow, what an opposite example do I have, that I have experience with, that is just a great thing. Nobody’s diving for the tables. He walks around. He’s like a celebrity on campus because people know he’s truly interested. He wants to talk to them. They want to share with them how their school experience is.

And again, I know this is not a corporation, but the lesson is still the same. So anyway, I wanted to share that.

Kristin Aikin Salada: Oh, yeah.

Joe Toscano: Kristin, I’ll defer to you in terms of tying it together. But to me, that was so important.

Kristin Aikin Salada: I love that story. Joe. Yeah, I think if you were to ask me for some key takeaways from our conversation today, I think for leaders, there’s a combination of two things to pay attention to. Some folks are driven towards one or the other.

One is the how to be a leader, right? Which is kind of like seeking mentorships, walking around, paying attention to the culture you’re creating, building those relationships. Those are like actions that you take.

And then I think the other piece is just stopping and paying attention to what you’re doing every day. So, a little self awareness, right? It’s catching yourself interrupting your listening. It is doing more talking and telling than asking. Good leaders ask a lot more questions and listen and really try and understand. It’s storytelling. It’s catching yourself, making sure that you’re making things relatable.

I have a colleague that actually all he does is he helps executives come up with stories. That is his business. And because people don’t want to hear only formal information about where we’re headed as an organization, they want to hear stories, and stories are a chance to be vulnerable. Stories are a chance to show your humanity. Stories are a chance to help people make a connection. So, practice actually what are the stories you’re going to tell?

Then, pay attention to and take the time to think, how am I going to delegate to people? Am I going to dump it and run, or how am I going to have that conversation with them so the expectations are clear so that each of our roles are clear and so that they really know I’ve got their back. And have we chosen the right form of delegation? Is this the right mix for you?

So it’s that mixture of big picture, how do you show up and general leadership philosophies, and then that mix of the very internal inward looking “how do I communicate with somebody to meet them where they’re at?” So it’s a mix of those two things that I think are, there’s always sort of a going back and forth between the two. But most leaders, the ones that are most effective, are really willing to get out of their own way. They recognize the areas where they’re in their own way of the development, or they’re in their own way of the relationship or the growth or the potential opportunities for the organization. And it’s always a work in progress. There’s always room for getting better. And that’s, that’s part of what makes leadership exciting to me.

Joe Toscano: Absolutely. And Kristin, if you could take a couple of minutes and tell us a little bit about your organization and how you help companies, that would be awesome.

Kristin Aikin Salada: Oh, thanks, Joe. I started New Angle Consulting in 2003, so it’s been quite a while. And most of what we do is help organizations have the conversations that matter.

We also deliver Personify Leadership, which is a two day leadership development program that is especially good for those mid to upper level leaders, also good for brand new supervisors as well.

 But our experience has been that a lot of the leadership strengths that are needed in all kinds of organizations are fairly universal.

Joe Toscano: No, I could totally understand that. We feel the same way as we work with clients within the industry. A lot of it are similar types of challenges that it’s great to bring to bear some great solutions that helps organizations get past that and grow and just get better.

Based on our conversation and the interaction that we’ve had, there’s a good reason that you’ve been in business 21 years and successful. So, I wish you many, many, many more years of continued success and, are very appreciative of you being with us here today.

Kristin Aikin Salada: Thank you, it was absolutely a joy, and I know that the clients you work with are in good hands as well. So thanks a ton. It’s really fun to chat with both of you.

Joe Toscano: Well, likewise.

Mike Kent: As we close out today, we want to encourage you to like, share and comment on the podcast. If there were things that struck you that really resonated with you, please share that in the comments field wherever you’re getting your podcasts.

Thanks very much for watching this episode of The Grind and we’ll see you again soon!

Joe Toscano: If Medvacon can help you and your organization, we’re happy to do so. We specialize in the following areas: Quality and Compliance, Validation and Qualification Services, Project Management, Tech Transfers, General and Specialized Training Programs, Engineering Services, and Talent Acquisition. If you have general questions as well, feel free to give us a call at any time.

We can easily be reached at 833 633 8226, or via our website at www. medvacon. com. Thanks so much, and we look forward to speaking with you.

Jessica Taylor: Thank you for listening to the Quality Grind Podcast presented by Medvacon. To learn more or to hear additional episodes, visit us at www. medvacon. com.